Circus Maximus with Japanese Tourists 2004

Ovid vs. Horace

When we were discussing the time-line last class and the topic came up about Ovid writing his love poems inspite of Horace's satires, I couldn't help think that maybe Ovid wrote them because no one else had. I know that everyone thinks that he wrote them because back in that time people frowned at writings that dealt with adultery and sex and all that jive but what if he wrote those love poems because that's what he felt and at that time maybe the mode of the people was changing. I mean the war was over and monuments of peace were going over, maybe the new generation wanted to read something else that epics and bashing people for character flawfs. I don't know, maybe he was just a perv and wanted to be controversial but I think he wrote them for a different reason that he wrote the poems from what everyone else thinks.

Food for Thought

One the issue of Rape Fanasties and Ovid--

I read a short story once entitled Rape Fantasies; the narrator is talking with her girlfriends and asked them point blank about their rape fantasies...each in turn repsonded with descriptions of being ravished, found naked and taken without word by a man they don't know...the narrotor proceeded to tell them that that isn't rape- that's ravishing. Rape is terrifying, brutal and cruel. It involves fear beyond belief. With that...can we say that what Ovid describes about him and his girlfriend is rape or rape fantasy?

I would agrue no. its game couples play that is more along the lines of playing "cat and mouse". and I would go on to say that with that defination - which is narrowing of Rape, it removes the Rape from Roman society. Its not a completely consentual society but not completely a cohorced one either. Its a strange middle ground. Does that make it right? of course not. but what does it make it?

Satire 1.3 Line 99-124

We as humans have evolved from uncivilized creatures and continue to evolve
We have learned from our past ancestors successes and failure (survival of the fittest)
The development of language was the mark of objectivity, it enable humans to define themselves, society, and provide a moral basis
The birth of language gives humans the opportunity to keep and record archives of history
And if we are willing to examine the past we will come to the realization that our form of justice is birthed from our fear of chaos
Nature does not know the difference between right and wrong
Nature only knows the innate feelings of what is wanted and unwanted, what is beneficial and what is detrimental
Nature knows this only by reason
And reason does not justify the fact that not all sins are equal
Therefore the punishment much fit the crime

A Strange Parallel

Yesterday I found a strange connection with Satire 1.3 and Ecclesiastes 3:12. (despite religious beliefs this is interesting.)

The Satire section is primiarily a mockery of the "so called wise" and teases those that are over wordy.

Ecclesiates 3:12-- says:
"Then I turned myself to consider wisdom and madness and folly;
for what can the man do what succeeds a king-- Only what he has already done
Then I saw that wisdom excels folly
As light excels darkness
The wise man's eyes are in his head,
The fool walks in darkness.
Yet I myself perceived
That the same event happens to them all.

So I said in my heart,
'As it happens to the fool, it also happns to me. Any was I then more wise?'
There is no more rememberacne for the wise than the fool forever...And how the wise man dies As the fool"


Now what struck me as interesting is that passage is similarily laid out in not only a verse like prose but also it speaks of how being wise or considering yourself wise is not true wisedom. True wisdom comes from acknowledging that nothing saves you from the ulitmate end --death. Horace's satire though different is similar. Let those who consider themselves wise go on, but realize that they are not as wise as they boldy and loudly claim. This passage from the Bible also speaks of the ranks of kings and what makes a man better than a king. Horace's satire talks about being everything therefore being your own king.
Ulitimately,this caught my attendtion because we talked in class how Judism was 'trendy' for some Romans and here I would argue there is clear line of similar thinking. And I honestly found it very intrigueing. Was Horace himself a little influenced with Jewish philosophy? Or would you argue this being just a similar opinion found across the board?

satire 1.7 question

i have read through this short satire several times, and am having difficulty determaning the point. there is some obviouse sarcasm, but i think it might be lost on me. in particular, i would like to know what it means in line 21-23,

"they (Bithus and Bacchius) rush fiercely into court, each a memorable sight. Persius states his case amid general laghter:he praises Brutus, Calling him 'the sun of Asia', and he praises his staff, calling them all 'stars of health', except for the King,"

why did he call Brutus the sun of Asia? i don't have any idea what this is a referance to, and it feels like this particular satire has several referances like that which i just don't understand. bugs me too, cause it's nice and short. oh well.

My Satire/Horace's Satire remade

I have been very sick, which is why this is late. Gotta love Nyquil, though; 180 proff, knocks you OUT!

SATIRE 1.3 remake

"A man may be over zealous and not quite up to step with modern trends; his hair is long, his dress unkempt and his shoes too big, but he is a better man than all he passes. He is your friend and he wears this falsehood like a cloak, hidding the true him from those too caught up in outward appearances. And what of you? Are you not faulty, imperfect? You are, none can escape imperfection, so turn a deaf ear on critics and gossips. Be yourself!

And just as two young lovers will find no fault with the other, finding the smallest imperfection a beautiful part in a whole, we must find ways to make our faults acceptable. Give nickmaes of endearment, turn the bad to good, and call a friend with bad vision 'Hawkeye' and a small friend 'Shorty'. If a friend is slow in his steps, call him "Speedy" and another's bent legs give him the nickname "Bowie". A cheap friend is thrifty and one who knows not when to hold his tounge is opinionated. But say these things with a light heart and mean them not as judgements but as praise, and your friendships will endure the test of time."

~~ Reaver

Roman Architecture

The most fasinating part of Roman history to me is the monumental architecture. The Romans were the first ones to create a form of concrete that would actually set in water. They used volcanic ash to form it. Perhaps this is one of the reasons some of their buildings have withstood times in as good condition that they have.

Satire I.3 lines 75-98

We are merely human, therefore we are not perfect. Mistakes only come natural to us. Infact we are prone to screwing up, and most of the time we arn't even aware of what we are doing. We will not evole out of our mistakes for the most part. So how will severe punishment change things that we are unaware of doing? The punishment should fit the crime. Most people act without observing the situation, not much can change that.
For example lets say we have Grandpa having the best golf game of his life. We also have little Billy who is just tagging along for company and to ride around in the cart. Due to severe A.D.H.D. and totaly ignorance for the game Billy picks up the old mans ball only lying only inches from the pin, and hurls into the near by pond in a state of oblivian. What would you think of Grandpa, if he left Billy crying and fearing for his life in a bunker as he speed off to write Billy out of the his will? Overkill!
The punishment should fit the crime, no one likes a bully. Look where it got Saddam.
Take for example the 2003 AL playoff series. A true Cubs fan interfears with a catchable ball. His punshment was a esscort from the game and death threats for a year. This fan was only thinking about obtaining a game ball, not that he may have cost the Cubs a chance to go to the World Series. This man loved Chicago, should he really be hated by the city?
Who are we to judge? Its so much easier to catch others in mistakes than ourselves. The one who judges whould be prepaired to be judged ten fold.

Modern Horace

Lines 76-98 Book 1 Satire 4, modern edition

Since human beings are a bunch of dumbasses
we should be rational about our own retardedness
Suppose a friend spilled a small ration of bongwater on your rug
And you laid a 50 gallon drum of whoop-ass on him
People would think you were an asshole
Is it worse to ignore your friend for something completely trivial
Not answering your cell phone when he calls, or worse yet
blocking him from your AOL Instant Messanger Buddy List
What if your friend ruins your only vinyl copy of Ice Ice Baby?
or what if he ate the left over Papa John's that you were saving for breakfast?
Should you be hatin on him? Not forever.
The punishment should fit the crime.

Blog homework.

lines 125-end.
-Even someone with everything thinks he has nothing and craves what he already has.
-you are always going to be what you are, no matter what you do in life. The singer is still a singer even while asleep and the king is still a king even if he is poor.
-It is easy to be unkown then known, since everyone is not looking/hoping for you to mess up and are more willing to forgive your faults.
If this is totally wrong then I'm sorry.